01/22/08: Job Followup
• "Men open their mouths to jeer at me; they strike my cheek in scorn and unite together against me. God has turned me over to evil men and thrown me into the clutches of the wicked" (Job 16:10,11).
• "My spirit is broken, my days are cut short, the grave awaits me. Surely mockers surround me; my eyes must dwell on their hostility" (Job 17:1,2). In Daniel, in an important prophecy, it says that "the Anointed One [Jesus, the Messiah] will be cut off and will have nothing" (Daniel 9:26).
Job 29:7-17 is a "Messianic" passage. Directly, it is a description of Job. But it also foreshadows Jesus, the Messiah, at His future return, when He will take His rightful place as the earth's King in Jerusalem.
There are examples throughout the Old Testament of people understanding that their Messiah (Redeemer, Savior) would come one day and stand upon the earth, and that they would be resurrected to see Him and to be with Him. Job knew this: "I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh [new glorified body] I will see God. I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!" (Job 19:25-27). Some of these words are included in the famous Handel's Messiah.
The day that the Redeemer (Jesus) will stand upon the earth also is described by Zechariah: "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem.... The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name" (Zechariah 14:4,9).
Job himself foreshadows Jesus, in the sense that he suffered greatly, even though he was a righteous man. Also, Job prayed for his friends (just as Jesus intercedes for us in heaven: Hebrews 7:24,25); and, as a result, God forgave them (Job 42:8-10).
One example from the Bible of why abortion is abhorrent to God is Job 31:15: "Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?" If God made and formed us in the womb, then He knew us as living human beings before we were born. Abortion is killing someone that God knows before they are born.
I believe that any physical manifestation of God in the Old Testament is the pre-incarnate Jesus. I have described examples here:
Eyes, Ears, Arms, Hands, Fingers, Feet, and Body of God
Job 12:8-10 is an example of this: "In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this? In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind." Jesus, the "hand" or "hands" of God, literally created all things and holds everything (in the universe) together (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16,17; Hebrews 1:2,3, 3:3,4).
Job 9:5-7 is prophetic of an event to take place near the end of the age, after the opening of the Sixth Seal of the heavenly scroll in Revelation. There will be a huge earthquake (which I believe will shake the entire earth), followed by fearsome "cosmic disturbances" in the sky: Revelation 6:12-14 (also described briefly by Jesus in Matthew 24:29). Immediately after these signs, the Rapture (catching up) of believers will take place, and then the wrath of God will be dispensed upon those remaining on the earth.
The words of God in the Bible are more important than the food we eat (Job 23:12).
01/22/08: Job 8-42
For most of Job, I really had no questions for Ted. We settled on the fact that Job was thoroughly lamenting his circumstances, meanwhile proclaiming his innocence. His 'friends' were thoroughly convinced that Job was a "shell" of good behavior, displaying his innocence publicly, meanwhile he must be committing great sin "behind the scenes." They could come up with no other explanation for God's persecution of Job.
My questions began again in Chapter 41:
God is describing a leviathan which is notated as possibly being a crocodile. Do you think these lines are literal or symbolic:
"Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth." I don't believe in fairy tales, but that sounds like a dragon?
Ted: Well, i don't think it sounds like a crocodile either, and a crocodile doesn't breathe out fire. There have been many opinions about what the leviathan is and most say, "well, we KNOW it couldn't be a dragon...." Personally, i lean toward believing that it was a dragon, or something similar to a dragon. It looks like a dragon, sounds like a dragon, and acts like a dragon, so why can't it be a dragon, which now is extinct? I have absolutely NO problem believing that God could create such an animal.
My questions began again in Chapter 41:
God is describing a leviathan which is notated as possibly being a crocodile. Do you think these lines are literal or symbolic:
"Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds. His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth." I don't believe in fairy tales, but that sounds like a dragon?
Ted: Well, i don't think it sounds like a crocodile either, and a crocodile doesn't breathe out fire. There have been many opinions about what the leviathan is and most say, "well, we KNOW it couldn't be a dragon...." Personally, i lean toward believing that it was a dragon, or something similar to a dragon. It looks like a dragon, sounds like a dragon, and acts like a dragon, so why can't it be a dragon, which now is extinct? I have absolutely NO problem believing that God could create such an animal.
01/15/08: Job 5-7
Job 5:
Is Eliphaz's message here basically to have faith in God and that He performs miracles?
Ted: Basically, yes. But, even more than that, it is well-rounded description (although the "tip of the iceberg") of how complex God is and how He does, and has done, so many things that we simply cannot comprehend all of them.
In giving these descriptions of God and an array of His actions, including great wonders and miracles, I believe that Eliphaz is pointing out to Job that God's ways are so far above our understanding that we simply are unable to comprehend them, in all of their completeness. Thus, as terrible as Job's trials and tribulations were, Job needed to understand that God, in His infinite wisdom, had a purpose for all of them. In Job 5:17, he essentially was telling Job that Job actually was being blessed by God's correcting and disciplining him.
Eliphaz even prophesied (whether he realized he was doing so or not) that Job's future would be secure. All of the things stated by Eliphaz in Job 5:24-26 actually came true in the end.
Is Eliphaz's message here basically to have faith in God and that He performs miracles?
Ted: Basically, yes. But, even more than that, it is well-rounded description (although the "tip of the iceberg") of how complex God is and how He does, and has done, so many things that we simply cannot comprehend all of them.
In giving these descriptions of God and an array of His actions, including great wonders and miracles, I believe that Eliphaz is pointing out to Job that God's ways are so far above our understanding that we simply are unable to comprehend them, in all of their completeness. Thus, as terrible as Job's trials and tribulations were, Job needed to understand that God, in His infinite wisdom, had a purpose for all of them. In Job 5:17, he essentially was telling Job that Job actually was being blessed by God's correcting and disciplining him.
Eliphaz even prophesied (whether he realized he was doing so or not) that Job's future would be secure. All of the things stated by Eliphaz in Job 5:24-26 actually came true in the end.
01/14/08: Job 1-4
Job 1:
What does God mean when He says to Satan: "Have you considered my servant Job?"
Ted: Job was one of God's chosen, who reverenced God greatly. Evidently, he was one of the most righteous men who ever lived, and he followed God's commands "religiously" and consistently. The latter is what it means to be a "servant" of God, and God pointed that out to Satan.
One of Satan's primary functions, is to accuse those who follow God. ("Satan" means "accuser.") Satan wants to find any fault he possibly can with those that God considers to be His "chosen" or "elect." In Satan's eyes, this discredits God for being "dumb" enough to choose them. Satan is very "legalistic" and points out even the most minute actions and character traits in human beings to criticize.
Another of Satan's primary functions is to turn as many people as possible away from God. In actuality, he is unable to turn any of the "chosen elect" permanently away from God, because (I believe) there is a one-to-one correspondence between those that God chooses to be His and those who will choose God to be their God. More about this can be read in one of my email responses to somebody here:
Predestination and Free Will
If Satan were to be able to turn away (permanently) anyone who has been chosen by God to be His throughout eternity, it would be a gigantic, momentous victory for Satan. In fact, though, I do not believe that it can be done, which is why he tried so hard to do it with Job. Basically, with Job, Satan "pulled out all the stops."
Satan believed that he could get Job so angry and disillusioned with God that Job would curse God and turn completely away from Him. But it didn't work. As usual, Satan was proven to be wrong by God, because God knew Job's steadfast character better than Satan did.
What does God mean when He says to Satan: "Have you considered my servant Job?"
Ted: Job was one of God's chosen, who reverenced God greatly. Evidently, he was one of the most righteous men who ever lived, and he followed God's commands "religiously" and consistently. The latter is what it means to be a "servant" of God, and God pointed that out to Satan.
One of Satan's primary functions, is to accuse those who follow God. ("Satan" means "accuser.") Satan wants to find any fault he possibly can with those that God considers to be His "chosen" or "elect." In Satan's eyes, this discredits God for being "dumb" enough to choose them. Satan is very "legalistic" and points out even the most minute actions and character traits in human beings to criticize.
Another of Satan's primary functions is to turn as many people as possible away from God. In actuality, he is unable to turn any of the "chosen elect" permanently away from God, because (I believe) there is a one-to-one correspondence between those that God chooses to be His and those who will choose God to be their God. More about this can be read in one of my email responses to somebody here:
Predestination and Free Will
If Satan were to be able to turn away (permanently) anyone who has been chosen by God to be His throughout eternity, it would be a gigantic, momentous victory for Satan. In fact, though, I do not believe that it can be done, which is why he tried so hard to do it with Job. Basically, with Job, Satan "pulled out all the stops."
Satan believed that he could get Job so angry and disillusioned with God that Job would curse God and turn completely away from Him. But it didn't work. As usual, Satan was proven to be wrong by God, because God knew Job's steadfast character better than Satan did.
